Hybrid vehicle maintenance
Twinkle VanWinkle, producer, List-en Up!))



Phone Interview 11/07/2008 between
Twinkle VanWinkle: Podcast Producer, Angie’s List “List-en Up!”
and
Craig Van Batenburg operating the Automotive Career Development Center in Worcester, Massachusetts

Twinkle VanWinkle:
What are the most common service calls or problems you find with hybrid vehicles?

Craig Van Batenburg:
Depends on whether you are talking about collision shops or repair shops. On the collision side, after a car has been in an accident, the calls I get are from technicians that just aren’t that familiar with hybrid technology yet, and they can get electrocuted. So I help them disarm the car, so it is safe to work on without having to worry about high voltage.
On the repair end, the car typically comes in with a check engine light or not running properly. Then it’s very traditional type of problem call with any other shop but we are working on systems we have not seen before. With hybrids there is a lot more communication between the computer and systems than regular cars. If your computer isn’t happy then you won’t run at all or properly.

VanWinkle:
Are there any safety issues or concerns when servicing a hybrid vehicle?

Van Batenburg:
There are a lot of concerns usually due to a lack of education which breeds fear. So what ACDC does, which is our acronym, is a lot of safety related classes in the beginning. Technicians and even consumers can feel they are a little more comfortable with the technology. From there, of course, whoever needs the information, whether it be insurance companies or technicians or whomever, they can start to learn how it actually functions and operates to whatever it is they are supposed to do with it.

VanWinkle:
How often should you have your hybrid serviced?

Van Batenburg:
I tell everybody, treat it like any other car you have ever driven. So maybe you drive a Toyota Corolla and then maybe you got a raise and you get a Prius. If you brought your car in every 5,000 miles for an oil change, do the same thing. If you brought your car in every 30,000 miles for major servicing, do the same thing. There is really nothing on a hybrid car that requires any shorter [maintenance schedule] and I wouldn’t suggest any longer service intervals.
I’ve run a repair shop for 27 years and our customers have some [repairs] every 3,000-5,000 miles for service, which I call minor service that include an oil change, just like our new president-elect said, “Get a tire gauge.” If you are checking the tire pressure, or you are just making sure the air filter is clean, that is just the same on any car as it is a hybrid. Then finding a technician, you would consider your technician a doctor.

VanWinkle:
So what happens at a regularly scheduled hybrid servicing? What’s replaced or cleaned? Where should you take it?

Van Batenburg:
Let’s say you buy a Toyota Prius and at around 5’000 miles you change the oil and check your tire pressure and your air filter and make sure everything is fine. Then you go in at around 30,000 miles and it gets a little serious. You check all the fluid levels, making sure the brakes are still good.
By the way, the brakes on hybrid systems last about 300,000 miles because you have two braking systems on hybrids. One is a big electric motor that is water cooled and it never wears out then the exclusional brakes like on any other car that do very little work on a hybrid so they hardly wear out. So you have your brakes checked, your levels checked, your tires checked. You may have a wheel alignment checked depending on what kind of road you live on and, of course, the filters — oil filter, air filter and typical things, even a filter inside most all vehicles called a cabin air filter that is replaced by removing your glove box. This is on hybrids and non-hybrids. This filter cleans the air before it gets into your car. So if you are driving on dusty conditions or polluted conditions, you can put a little filter in that cleans the air you are breathing. Lots of people don’t even know that filter exists, but a professional would. So you want to find a professional shop, be faithful, be loyal, bring them coffee and doughnuts in the morning if they are really good — they always like that — and bring your car in for service like anything else.

VanWinkle:
Why and how did you get involved with hybrid vehicle repair?

Van Batenburg:
It starts probably back when I was a teenager working at a local motorcycle shop in 1968, and I started hearing about this little company in Japan called Honda and heard about this man named Soichiro Honda. Then I found out that he was our first environmentalist. He ran a company where he required, and he still does, that they are more concerned about the environment than they are about profit and they still are. So I am a huge Honda fan. I worked with Honda motorcycles, automobiles as a technician, started my own Honda independent repair shop and in 1999 I bought the first Honda Insight, the first hybrid car sold in Massachusetts, serial number 157. I still drive the car around. By the time the year 2000 rolled around I was already well on my way as a business owner, had my repair shop, had some resources. I loved the environment, I was teaching for the State of Massachusetts Emissions Program. And after I bought the Insight I fell head over heels in love with hybrid technology, I knew a lot of people would. I wrote an article for a magazine called Auto, Inc. and they made the cover with my Insight and me. There was an article I wrote in June of 2000 and all of a sudden I became the industry expert. I was no expert at the time obviously, I just knew a lot. I sold my repair shop five years ago and all I do is work on and deliver training around the country and internationally — I just returned from Europe, doing some classes in Holland and Germany. So it’s exciting business and it’s fun and if you can [educate] everybody on the road, then our little planet has a much better chance of surviving.

VanWinkle:
Are there any disadvantages owning a hybrid?

Van Batenburg:
Absolutely. Your Republican friends won’t like you — no, just kidding. The disadvantages of owning a hybrid aren’t many, but I like to look at both sides. They are a little bit more money up front. But the good news is that when you trade them in, their resale tends to be a little higher than a conventional car because they are more in demand. You cannot get deals on hybrids, typically if you pay retail.

VanWinkle:
Is there anything you would like to add that you think is important to our listeners?

Van Batenburg:
I think there is one thing that is very important to know about hybrids. People are afraid to buy a hybrid because they have heard that the battery packs won’t last and they cost like $10,000 to buy. I think that it is important for consumers to know that the battery packs have a warranty of 100,000 miles and, secondly, the oldest battery pack we have is the 1999 Toyota Prius and it’s still in the car. The battery packs are even better than the manufacturers thought they would be; so don’t worry about the battery. It will last as long as the car will.

Phone Interview 11/07/2008 between
Twinkle VanWinkle: Podcast Producer, Angie’s List “List-enUp!”
and
Todd Weedman – Owner of Todd’s Import Auto – Lake Oswego, Ore.
Twinkle VanWinkle:
What are the most common service calls or problems you find with hybrid vehicles?

Todd Weedman:
Well the hybrids themselves don’t [have] a whole lot of problems. We see some lack of instruction with new owners who really don’t know how to operate the vehicles, which is kind of interesting teaching them how to operate the vehicles. A lot of shops don’t know the special protocols to place the vehicle in the service mode, just so they can work on it. We are seeing a lack of service on the secondary cooling systems in the vehicles, models such at the Ford and Toyota vehicles that have an another cooling system in them that is specific for some of the hybrid components. Likewise, transmissions seem to need fluid servicing more than other vehicles, and brake calipers need to be looked at because they don’t get a lot of operation. Not anything terrible but things that need to be checked periodically.

VanWinkle:
Are there any safety issues or concerns when servicing a hybrid vehicle?

Weedman:
You have to understand what you are working with, and as far the manufacturing is concerned, they built a lot of safety into these vehicles. Obviously, they don’t want to see anybody get injured. But when you put the vehicle into service mode, that’s the critical thing to avoid injury. When you put the thing in service mode, you have shut down the high voltage system, isolate that and you can go ahead and work with the vehicle.

VanWinkle:
How often should you have your hybrid serviced?

Weedman:
Still, oil changes that need to be done. Most of the vehicle doesn’t require any special considerations. Just a few things we check on those vehicles that we don’t check on other cars, or at least with less frequency or less specific focus. But oil changes we press those out to about 5,000 miles and feel quite comfortable with that. As they start using the hybrid system – the electric portion of the drive system –more frequently, we may push out the oil change intervals more frequently, but that is more to be seen in the near future.

The other servicing protocols are pretty standard because all cars have some servicing that needs to be done about every 15,000 miles and those will vary slightly depending on the manufacturer.

VanWinkle:
So what happens at a regularly scheduled hybrid servicing? What’s replaced or cleaned?

Weedman:
The hybrid system itself does not require so much service, but it can influence how much service is required by the non-hybrid components, such as the brakes. We are seeing that the brake systems are being used quite as much, consequently, some of those components get sticky, maybe get some corrosion, especially vehicles in the Midwest or East Coast in a salty environment, where they don’t get exercised as we say. We go in there and clean and lubricate them so they do work properly all the time. That is the No.1 reason we see hybrids lose mileage – the brakes aren’t getting used enough and they’re making the vehicle drag. But if they are leaned periodically, then everything is great.

VanWinkle:
Why and how did you get involved with hybrid vehicle repair?

Weedman:
We are a Honda and Toyota specialty shop, so really we had no choice in the matter. We have always welcomed the new technologies that these forward-thinking companies have developed the new hybrid system. We’ve been working with these for 10 years now, and found these systems are pretty trouble-free. There were a couple of quirks in the first couple of years, but other than that, really rock-solid.

I was actually on the verge of buying one, and then energy-crisis came along and the cars were carrying a premium price tag, like I knew they would, and that has now subsided. But I am likely to get a Prius. I found that the Prius has really become the icon, and a lot of little nuances that I want to work out. I like those cars. I have had the opportunity to drive those cars for an extended period of time, and they are very roomy and very practical.
Very nice.

VanWinkle:
What are the advantages of owning a hybrid?

Weedman:
As far as advantages, mileage is one factor, and fewer green house emissions is another. There is also the low operation cost. People find that when you own a hybrid that things you don’t tend to think about don’t tend to be an issue. One of the great examples I use is about the brakes — you will see brakes last 60,000 to 70,000 miles. We had someone here at 100,00 miles putting on their first set of brakes. The hybrid system does not necessitate the application of brakes as much as a normal vehicle, therefore they have very little wear. That’s very good.

Vanwinkle:
How much of your business deals with hybrid vehicle servicing?

Weedman:
At this point less than 5 percent of our business deals with hybrid repair, seeing as how there aren’t very many of them out there. I think we are seeing more than the average shop, albeit that is a small number, but it is steadily increasing. One thing we didn’t touch on, to make sure we mention, a lot of people have concerns about is the batteries. The batteries have been found to last the lifetime of the vehicle. So actually a recent report on these from the taxi cabs that have been using the hybrids found that they have been getting 250,000 to 300,000 miles on these taxis and that’s just to date. They still have had very few battery issues and they can pinpoint those issues to human error. They are found to be very trouble free.

I encourage everyone to seriously consider hybrid vehicles or other alternative fuel source vehicles because we do need to diversify what energy sources we are using to get ourselves around town. I say be proactive z –– it’s always better when you have a say in what your future is. Be proactive and you can have more of a say in what you are going to be driving in the next 10 years.

Also, some people are interested in shops that are certified, there are shops that are certified, and there are places that offer certified mechanics.