Jeremy Stacy, “List-en!” associate producer
Ryan Pirro interview
May 4, 2009

Jeremy Stacy: Please give me your name, company and location for the record.

Ryan Pirro: My name is Ryan Pirro and my company is restorationwindows.com. We're based in Woburn and Concord, Mass.

JS: How long have you been in the window industry?

RP: I've been in the industry for about nine or 10 years. For about three or four years before restorationwindows.com, I was doing part–time handy work, which included some window repairs and a couple of window replacements and storm window replacements.

JS: How have windows changed over the years?

RP: Back a few hundred years ago, pretty much every window in the United States was wooden and they were made of old growth wood, which is something that is long gone today. It's no longer a material that we can use. Then back in the 1940s and 1950s some aluminum windows came into the market and about 20 to 30 years ago vinyl windows started becoming popular. 

JS: What's the difference between old-growth and new-growth wood?

RP: Old-growth wood [comes from] trees that were allowed to mature naturally — in some cases over 100 years, 200 to 300 years. What you end up with is a much tighter ring pattern in the wood, which when it's harvested and used as a building material, results in a much more durable wood. It resists rot much better, it resists pests much better and also holds paint much better.

The new-growth wood is usually grown on plantations and you often end up with more rings per inch, which results in not as stable of a wood. It doesn't hold paint as well, it's usually a bit softer and it’s more susceptible to rot and pests.

JS: Can you still buy windows made with old-growth wood?

RP: You may be able to, but it would not be legal. I believe the bulk of our old-growth forests are protected. 

JS: What type of windows do you specialize in?

RP: We specialize in wooden, double-hung weight-and-pulley windows as well original casement windows.

The types that we restore are usually original to homes built before 1930. After that, the building materials became not as high quality — with World War II the resources were elsewhere.

JS: What are some common problems homeowners have with their wooden windows?

RP: The two most common problems are excess paint on these old windows where painters haven't taken the care to paint carefully and keep the windows operating and broken ropes tend to be a common problem as well. In addition, drafty windows, windows that are stuck — meaning that they don't operate opening and closing — as well as storm windows that are not really doing their job anymore given their age. And cracked glass is another common problem with these windows as well.

JS: How do you determine if a window can be restored or needs to be replaced?

RP: There are a few different factors. One is the age of the home. Do the windows have historical significance? And of course the condition of the windows. Are they rotted out? Are they beyond restoration? Are they made of materials worth restoring — meaning that some of the newer woods that are used in these windows aren't really meant to last. They last about 20 to 30 years and they completely rot out. In that case, it's not usually worth restoring. They should be replaced.

JS: What are the advantages of restoring a window versus replacing it?

RP: One is the appearance of the house. Usually in these old homes, the architect had a certain look and feel in mind when he designed the house and your windows are a big part of that.

Another reason is these windows have often lasted 100-plus years and really just need some maintenance rather than be thrown out. These windows are also designed to be maintained, where they're pretty easily pulled apart and put back together after maintenance has occurred.

Common maintenance issues are paint, broken ropes, broken glass and things of that nature, which can all be done without wasting materials.

The restoration process with adding weather stripping, with replacing storm windows, and sometimes adding an interior storm window, we can achieve a very similar energy rating to a new window. And the windows that have already lasted 100 years and after our work is done, we expect them to last another 50 to 100 years with just the normal maintenance — painting and lubricating them. 

In the case of mechanical restoration, we replace the ropes with chains, so we've eliminated one of the common maintenance issues, which is a broken rope because the chain will not break.

JS: Can you describe the different types of restoration for me?

RP: What the full mechanical restoration involves is replacing all the ropes — usually with new chain — completely weather stripping the window with a combination of a few different kinds of weather stripping depending on the window system that you have. As well as reglazing the exterior of the windows, replacing any of the cracked glass [and] refitting them to the windows so that they are much more airtight than usually when we start.

The end result is a window that is mechanically working well, relatively airtight because of the weather sealing that we do and also a window that's going to last 50-plus years.

The normal cosmetic restoration that we do involves removing the wooden windows from the house, bringing them back to our shop and having all the paint stripped from them. Then from there, we completely reglaze the glazing putty on the exterior of the windows and we rebuild any damaged wood — meaning if the wood is rotten we're going to replace those portions. And, [we repaint] to finish them, or in some cases in a natural finish on the interior side to match existing interior trim.

JS: What do you do to protect the home from the elements when you remove the windows?

RP: Most of the homes we're working on have storm windows so the storm windows stay in place as a barrier from the elements. Often with our work, we're replacing storm windows as well. The process would be to come in and put the new storm windows on the house and then remove the wooden windows for the shop work.

JS: How long does a typical project last?

RP: Normally, start to finish about three to three-and-a-half weeks for the cosmetic restoration. That would be an entire house. Anywhere from five windows to about 30 windows we can turn around that quickly.

JS: What about for mechanical restoration?

RP: Depending on crew size, most homes we can get through in about a week to a week and a half.

In the mechanical restorations if we find any decayed wood, we prefer to bring that back to our shop to work on. Sometimes glass replacement we'll have done back at our shop. Otherwise the bulk of the mechanical restoration is done at the home.

JS: What's the typical cost for a window restoration?

RP: It really all depends on the condition of the window and what we're being hired to do. But a window restoration for what we would call an easy window would start around $300 and move up from there. That would be for the full mechanical restoration.

We also do come out and in some cases we'll take on three or four windows with just some minor repairs for people as well, which would be less.

JS: What are some misconceptions about window restoration?

RP: The most common misconception I see is people feel that either replacing the windows or restoring their windows is going to solve all of their energy loss problems. And what I really strongly recommend to homeowners that we work with is that before investing in any sort of energy improvement that they have an energy audit performed, which will evaluate where the worst problems in the house might be for energy loss.

JS: What sort of questions should homeowners ask contractors about window restoration?

RP: I think a good question to ask would be, “What type of weather stripping do you use and where is the weather stripping installed?” We weather strip every surface of the window to reduce air infiltration where some companies don't weather strip every area.

Another good question to ask is how is rot in the wood dealt with. I've also seen some windows that have been restored that don't have the rotten wood addressed.

JS: How do you address rotten wood in windows?

RP: There's an epoxy system that we use … that is really cutting edge. Basically what we do is we remove all of the rotted wood and then prepare the sound wood with a primer system made with the epoxy and then we replace all of the rotted wood with the epoxy system.

JS: What is the life expectancy of wood windows versus vinyl windows?

RP: The old wooden windows that we're working on — often the older the window the higher the quality of wood was used. It's not uncommon to see more rot in a home built in the 1930s or newer versus a home built prior to 1930.

The wooden windows have often lasted 100 or more years and with the proper maintenance and restoration, there's no reason that they should not last another 50 to 100 years and in some cases more.

With the vinyl windows, the sun really does a number on them and warps the vinyl. There's also the balance system, which is what opens and closes the window — or assists you in opening and closing the window that's designed around springs and the springs will eventually wear. The vinyl will warp and twist in sun. And there's also the thermal pane glass and the newer wooden windows. There's a gasket seal around the edges of the glass that tends to fail in about 10 to 15 years so you end up with a permanently foggy window and you can't wash the fogginess away. You have to replace the window entirely.

JS: What are some wood window maintenance tips for homeowners?

RP: Paint them as needed. It depends on the age of the building and paint is one of those subjects that have a lot gray areas. But, basically maintaining the paint job on the windows — not allowing the paint to crack and let moisture in through them. Lubricating the tracks of these old windows with a furniture polish — and oil-based furniture polish — will help preserve the wood. And keep any excess paint build up to a minimum so that you can still operate your windows.

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Jeremy Stacy, “Listen!” associate producer
Miranda Siano interview May 4, 2009

Jeremy Stacy: Please give me your name and location for the record.

Miranda Siano: My name is Miranda Siano. We live in Newton, Mass.

JS: What type of windows do you have?

MS: We have the old double-hung windows. The house is about 150 years old and I believe the windows are original to the house.

JS: How did you determine you needed work done on your windows?

MS: We were pretty sure that the windows weren't airtight. We could hear them rattling around when the kids would go running around and you could feel the draft. Sometimes it would be very cold near the windows and we felt the house was very expensive to heat. We were looking for ways we could save on the heating bill.

JS: When did you have the work done?

MS: We had the work done in the fall of 2007.  

JS: What made you decide to restore you windows instead of replace them?

MS: We had a couple of windows in the attic that had been replaced with the vinyl replacement windows and they just didn't look right in the house. The older windows had that kind of nice wavy glass effect and I really wanted to try and keep that if we could for the rest of the house.

I did some research online and I found a site called windowrepair.com. And that is the site for David Liberty, who has a window restoration service. He had some links to some great articles and information about window restoration and that looked like a great solution to me because we wanted to preserve the historic look of our windows.

JS: Did you consider any other contractors besides David Liberty?

MS: We did get a quote from one other window repair service. They had a similar approach. They recommended preserving the old wooden windows as well. They just seemed much more expensive and that was why we went with David.

JS: What kind of questions did you ask the contractors?

MS: We asked what the advantages of the restoration service would be and also I was concerned about the cost. We were concerned both about saving money on the heating bill and also about preserving the historic look of the windows that would look appropriate on the house. But, we also didn't want to spend a lot of money on window restoration if we weren't going to recoup the cost any time soon.

We asked about the ways we could save money and one thing David very strongly recommended was replacing the storm windows that we had with triple track newer storm windows. 

We asked if that was optional — could we just do the window restoration and get around to doing the storms later — and he was very insistent that we needed to do both in order to create an airtight seal similar to what you would get with a modern double-pane window. He doesn't sell the storm windows, but he referred us to a couple of different storm window contractors, so we did actually do both projects at the same time.

JS: How many windows did you have restored?

MS: Well, we decided to save a little bit of money by concentrating on the second floor of the house and our plan is to come back and do the first floor maybe this year or next year. We ended up restoring 11 windows and the cost per window for David's service was about $200 per window and then replacing the storm windows, that was comparable.

The storm windows had an option to get a low-e coating, which I had read about in replacement windows. It's a way to enhance the energy efficiency of the windows by keeping more of the heat inside the house. For storm windows, I wasn't able to find as much information about low-e coating and how effective it was, but in the end I think it represented about a 5 or 10 percent increase in the cost of the storm windows. So we did decide to get the low-e coating as well.

My understanding was that in the past, the low-e coating — some people thought it gave a blue tint to the windows. People didn't always like the low-e coating. But, we didn't notice any difference between the low-e coating and the storm windows we had before. We didn't see any aesthetic downside to getting the low-e coating.

JS: What kind of work did David do to restore the windows?

MS: Most of what David did was he installed copper weather stripping on the windows as well as he replaced the rope cords with a brass chains, which will last longer. Ropes and pulleys do sometimes wear out on the windows.

The storm windows that we ordered, they were Harvey True Channel Storm Windows. They don't look a lot different than the old storm that were put on 30 years ago, but they definitely create that airtight seal that we're looking for — that the older ones really don't.

JS: How long did the restoration process take?

MS:  It was pretty quick — about a day and a half for David's restoration service and the storm windows — that was about a day's work as well.

JS: What was the order you had the two projects — storm windows and window restoration — done?

MS: We had the storm windows done first so that work was finished when David came.

JS: Now that you've had the windows in for more than a year, have you noticed any energy savings?

MS: It's a little hard to say how much savings we noticed because we did this — first of all it was the first winter that we lived in the house so we didn't have the previous year's heating bill to compare with — and we also replaced the boiler that year so it's hard to say how much of the savings would have been because of the new boiler as compared to the new windows.

What we have noticed is that because we did the windows on the second floor, and not the first floor — we have noticed a definite difference between the temperature on the second floor and the first floor in the wintertime.

It definitely feels like the heat stays in the room better on the second floor and there's quite a noticeable difference in temperature — more than you would expect from heat rising. It seems to be contained much better on the second floor than on the first floor, which does still feel a little bit drafty.

JS: What would you recommend to homeowners considering replacing or restoring windows?

MS: I think there are a lot of companies out there that would like to sell you all new windows for your house. There's not much chance those windows are going to last as long as the double-hung wooden windows that have been in your house for 100 years.

Restoring your windows may not seem like the cheapest option, but in the long run you have to consider how long your replacement windows might last and also what is going to be most appropriate for your house.

There are people who will tell you an old, wooden window will never be as energy efficient as the new one and I think there's just more to the story than that and it pays to do some research and look into the alternative.